🎙 We Are Human Leaders: Using Ritual to Uplevel Your Leadership
What do you think of when you think of rituals? And how can rituals form a part of how we lead, work and connect?
Today Sally Clarke and Alexis Zahner dive deep on the meaning and impact of rituals at work and beyond with Ezra Bookman. Ezra Bookman is an internationally recognized ritual designer, artist, and founder of Ritualist, the first ever creative studio specializing in the design of secular ritual. He’s worked with numerous organizations and thought leaders and his insights into the scope for ritual to create connection and meaning in our lives will change how you view everything from your morning coffee, to facilitating a company-wide meeting.
Transcript:
Spk0 Sally Clarke Spk1 Ezra Bookman Spk2 Alexis Zahner
[00:00:09] spk_0: Welcome to the We are Human Leaders podcast. I'm Sally Clarke. What do you think of when you think of rituals and how can rituals form a part of how we lead work and connect today? Alexis Anna and I dive deep on the meaning and impact of rituals at work and beyond with Ezra Bookman. Ezra is an internationally recognized ritual designer, artist and founder of ritual, the first ever creative studio specializing in the design of secular ritual. He's worked with numerous organizations and thought leaders and his insights into the scope for ritual to create connection and meaning in our lives will change how you view everything from your morning coffee to facilitating a company wide meeting. Let's delve in.
[00:01:03] spk_1: Welcome to, we are human leaders. Ezra, it's an absolute delight to have you with us today and we'd like to begin by learning a little bit more about your own personal journey and how you've come to do the important work that you're currently doing.
[00:01:19] spk_2: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's such a joy and a delight. It's a great word to be here. I'll try to do the quick version of this. It always goes on too long. But the quick story is, you know, my background is originally in theater. Actually, I was a performance artist and director and I got really interested in the in the intersection of arts and spirituality and how really all of our artistic practices today have their roots as ritual practices, costuming, dancing, drumming, singing, acting, performing. It's all started as ritual. So I had a research grant. I went to South America and I just kept on digging deeper and deeper into that question. Hungry for a kind of performance and theater that wasn't really out there. So that eventually I wound up actually at a community in New York called Lab, which was an experimental artist driven, everybody friendly God optional, pop up Jewish community. And I was the artistic director there, getting to explore that question and that intersection and just found myself creating new rituals all the time. You know, it was a sort of very modern community with like one step in the past, but one step really deeply rooted in the present and trying to reinvent in every way, what it means to be a spiritual community in the modern world. So we were constantly reinventing and creating new rituals, which meant that I was always going to lots of rituals and doing lots of research. And this question just started nagging on me, which is like, why are some rituals better than others? Why were we so popular? Why were people coming to us feeling transformed completely as a person. They walked in one way, they left a different way and others are like so boring. You just like, can't wait to get out of it. And that question just fascinated me and drove me to do a ton of research around, you know, what are rituals actually and why are they important? And then ultimately, and most importantly, how do we design them better? Because when you look around, it's not just in spiritual communities, rituals are really everywhere in our lives. And I'll admit I've done some of those bad rituals myself, those boring ones. And I've done some really great ones. And I'm just committed to getting this work out there in the world. Fascinating
[00:03:29] spk_0: Ezra. Thank you so much for sharing that, that personal journey and that quest. I love the curiosity that you've brought to those questions. And it sounds like something that's kind of an overarching sort of life journey for you personally as well. And I can't help but wonder that the question that you pose that has driven so much of your research and your career to date. What is a ritual? And what impact can rituals have? How can we design better ones? I'd love to firstly start by exploring that first one. What is a ritual?
[00:04:00] spk_2: Sure, my definition of ritual is an intentional, symbolic, elevated action. And what I mean by that, it's actually probably best, by example, I think especially in the context of, of culture and work life. When I talk about rituals at work, I think a lot of people imagine standing around and drumming and wishing for the marketing R O Y to be better in the next quarter, which is a real example that I heard from Adam Grant from a company as a totally toxic work culture. And I think that's what probably most people imagine. But a much better example is from a company called Simpson Manufacturing. And Simpson is very sort of standard manufacturing, but it's known for its culture. And one of their values is that everyone matters. And there's many ways in which that value gets embodied into the culture of Simpson. One of them is that the CEO and the founder when he was still alive, sat in and went to every single employee on boarding every single one and this is a 3000 person company, right? And he would at some point get up, tell the history of the company and welcome each and every person by name, welcome them to the company. And so why is that a ritual? Well, it's intentional, right? It's purposeful. There's a purpose, a clear purpose to it just to welcome the employees. It's symbolic, it means more than what it does, right? Functionally what's happening is, you know, the CEO is going to an onboarding meeting, but it signals this value, this deeper value that they have there and when you tell the story of like who is Simpson manufacturing, you'll tell that story because it means more than what it actually functionally does and it's elevated, it's special, right? It's different than the norm. The normal thing is you'll see the CEO in a video that gets sent to you in your onboarding packet and along with the values in a PDF and then you'll never hear about them or see him ever or her ever again. So it's different. It's special, it's elevated. And that's why I would point to that as a better example of what ritual is
[00:06:06] spk_0: amazing. And I think, you know, so much of our ideas about ritual are drawn from spirituality and sort of spiritual tradition. So it's really interesting to think about the context in an organization and their impact. And what do you think when you know, when they're done? Right? What impact can a ritual have for leaders, for teams and organizations?
[00:06:26] spk_2: There's a evolutionary scientist, Dr Isabel Bey who says, tell me what rituals you do and I'll tell you who you are. So I think in the context of a company, rituals really embody the values and symbolize and signal who this company is what they stand for, what matters to them. Most rituals also help us zoom in, it breaks us out of the habitual automatic way of being and doing and so that we can pay attention to what's actually happening. There's some great rituals that you can do for like starting your meeting, especially your Zoom virtual meetings. There's so much habit and habitual ways of like the first five minutes is idle chit chat until finally someone says, OK, let's begin. It's like, why is that, is that serving us? Is that helping us in any way? So rituals can interrupt that. A colleague of mine says rituals are friction, which is a great way of thinking about how rituals can actually help us break out of the automatic ways in which we lose sight of what is actually important and what actually matters and which can actually in many ways help us be more productive. And rituals help us zoom out, connect to something bigger than ourselves, whether it's our deepest personal values, who we are are and why we're at work. But also our team, what team stands for the company itself, the mission vision potentially. And I think also rituals help us process emotions, the idea that we can somehow leave a part of ourselves at the door and show up at work as if that whole self is not. There is a real disservice that we tell people in the workforce today. We are always our full selves and things that happen at work. We are emotional beings and changes, layoffs, new beginnings, all this kind of stuff, there's an emotional weight to it and we often just bottle it and don't actually express it. And because of that those emotions end up working against us. So I say rituals are great unique spaces that allow us to process those emotions,
[00:08:31] spk_1: really agree with you there, Ezra. And, you know, interestingly just reflecting on a few moments ago, we begun our podcast conversation and when you joined us, you said, do you have a ritual to begin the podcast? And Sally and I sort of said, well, sort of just a bit of idle chit chat and, you know, then we jump into it and you gently guided us through just a moment of a few deep breaths. And I can't help but think just reflecting on what you mentioned there that it almost felt like a moment for the rest of our body and emotional being to kind of catch up with where the brain already was ready to sort of jump into the conversation and just that gentle moment of breathing together before we came into this conversation, I felt myself relaxed. I felt myself settle, find sort of a grounded this before we entered this conversation. And I'd love to maybe take the conversation in a little bit in that direction. That was just, you know, one experience of how such a small ritual really, I think changed the energy and the present that we were able to bring to this conversation. What does the neuroscience or what does the science tell us about the impact of rituals on the human being? And you mentioned it's about viewing the human as the whole human, not just the brain coming to work every day and having to do the things. So I'd love to know a little bit more around what impact that can actually have on us as human beings, you know, in the workplace as well.
[00:09:59] spk_2: Yeah. Thanks for that question. And what I love in that example is the reminder that rituals can be as simple as a conscious breath and can be as big as the Olympic opening ceremonies, right? So we're talking about a really wide spectrum of social and human behavior here. But a reminder for all of us building cultures that like if you get caught up thinking like, oh it's a ritual. I need the candles and the robes and all that sort of stuff. Like it can be so much simpler than that. There's beautiful studies coming out of behavioral neuroscience right now around why do we do rituals? They are a personal human behavior through all of human history in every single culture since our earliest ancestry. So like what's the deal here? And it's a nascent science? But in the last 15 years or so, we've seen studies that have shown rituals provide stable feelings of social connection, rituals, enhance performance by motivating and bonding people. They can enhance performance by decreasing anxiety. They help people deal with loss and grief and negative transitions. They can increase creativity, they can improve the quality of an experience. This is one of my favorite ones. They gave two groups a chocolate bar, one, they gave a ritual before eating it. Super simple little ritual and one they just ate it and then rated it. And the one with the ritual rated it as better tasting, better quality, more expensive. So rituals can improve actual quality of our experience and can also give us a feeling of control and focus and self-discipline, especially in the face of instability which we all face at some point in our work life.
[00:11:37] spk_0: I love that you used that word a couple times actually as a sort of identifying rituals as being a sort of a stable socially connective component of human interconnection. And you mentioned it again, there, there can be a kind of a sense of control and continuity perhaps in the face of instability and uncertainty of which we've all had plenty of experience in recent years. And I can imagine that planting almost of a ritual, you know, Lex mentioned the word grounding earlier as well that there is a grounding component to having that some activity that is shared on a frequent on a regular basis that almost creates something almost tangible in terms of expectations, in terms of how we treat one another, how we enter situations. I can imagine it. And it's wonderful to hear also that there is this science also backing the powerful impact that it has for people even in the workplace
[00:12:30] spk_2: Yeah, it's exciting. It's really exciting. And
[00:12:33] spk_0: so on that note, I'd love to explore a little bit. We've talked about the research behind the impact of rituals at work. What are a couple of examples if you can perhaps share the work that you do as the ritual is working with teams and organizations about the sort of when you have been able to perhaps create a ritual for a team or help them create a ritual and seeing what the outcome might be. We'd love to hear some examples of your experience.
[00:12:58] spk_2: Sure. Yeah. And I hope, you know, I can give some examples but for anyone listening and if you're feeling inspired, you're like, I want to go create some rituals at my company or with my team. You know what I really encourage you is not just to replicate what I'm doing, but to really go through a creative process on your own. And I can talk you through maybe a little bit later, some of the where to start in that process. But you know, it's not so simple of just like the rituals are like, do this feel that, you know, automatic kind of the way that they're often talked about online? It's not just replicating what other people do because that might not be a culture fit for you. So I hope get the inspiration to create on your own and with your teams, there's so many examples. My brain kind of goes a little blank when I get asked this question, you know, one fairly reason I teach a seven week course called the ritual lab where people can come and they learn the sort of fundamentals of ritual design and then get to bring a ritual that they're working on for feedback with a small cohort of six other people. And there was a guy in the most recent cohort Maximo who's the head of people at the A I startup. And he brought in this ritual. He's like, you know, it's happening, but I'm not really sure. It is a ritual because like at two pm, inevitably every single day, there's that like two PM slump and someone never really sure who, but someone will send out a slack. I made coffee and like 15 to sometimes like up to 60 people will come into their little micro kitchen and the person who makes the coffee will take the first cup, they like sit around and bruise, they take the first cup and then they make some sort of like comment about the quality of the coffee, like, hm, tastes like blueberry or whatever, you know, something funny. And then everyone pours coffee, they sit around their big buffet table snacks come out and then he always will sit down and welcome people. And he says the same thing, each China says, like in the spirit of being more human at work, let's go around and, and just sort of puts out a question. Tell me one thing that you're grateful for this week or something like that. And about 35 to 45 minutes later, he usually will say something like, oh man, I gotta go to my next meeting and we'll get up and it all sort of dissipate. So it's like, OK, so this is happening, it's gonna keep happening no matter what I would love for. You know, what's happening is like none of the interactions and the connections that are happening are actually like moving past the gathering, people will say something that they're working on and I'll see the two people, they're both working on it the same challenge, but then they don't go talk to each other afterwards. So how do we elevate this and make it more meaningful and more important and what we identified a couple things, one, we identified a couple of solutions for diversifying the leadership of this, this gathering so that it's not just Maximo being responsible for it every time so that there was more ownership around it. They're gonna start suggesting questions in their slack channel. So it's not just Maximo coming up with it, but they get to have a say in what the questions are and up vote, the questions that they want. And also most importantly is like that close rather than the oh no, I gotta go to my next meeting, which was sort of signaling like, oh we've been doing something naughty. We've been like taking time off work and like, OK, we all have to go back to our desks. Instead, we've created a closing with clarity and intention so that it's a culture that celebrates rests and celebrates that human connection, not like they're getting away with something by connecting with each other. And so just like it's opening with some intentionality is not gonna close with some intentionality too. And it's beautiful the way it's blossoming and the way that those connections are now sort of rippling out beyond just that 30 40 minute break. That
[00:16:39] spk_1: sounds like such a small yet profound experience for the employees at that company on so many levels. I can't help thinking that opportunity to connect with the founder and the CEO every afternoon tea time is such a special little moment. But I also just appreciated how that ritual really fit with the natural cycle of human beings through the workday. You know, we can't expect people to be on productively at their desk for eight hours. So there is opportunity to infuse these rituals in a way that helps us. As you said, the word rest was really important, but recoup energy reconnect at times of the day where potentially we're not working or at a high performing sort of level. And it's an opportunity to sort of take a step back and connect with one another before sort of moving in to what we need to do in the afternoon. So that was such a lovely example there, Ezra. And, you know, I'd love to even move this to a personal level because sort of speaking to that a little more, we all have sort of different levels of energy through the day, different times where we can be in deep work or where we enjoy concentrating or where we feel the need to have a little bit more of that sort of maybe human connection. And I'd love to hear from you personally, Ezra, you know, what rituals do you use in your work life that you perhaps couldn't do without?
[00:18:04] spk_2: Yeah. Well, I work alone a lot as a consultant and teacher and facilitator. It's a lot of at my own desk kind of stuff. So I'm not sure how relevant these will be for everyone else. I would say one of my favorite rituals and, and that for me speaks a lot about like who I am and how I want to interact with my day is that I've changed my computer password to the word deep breath, which I don't always do, by the way, like sometimes I'm often just speeding through and I just like, type it in and I keep doing whatever, whatever I'm doing. But it's there for me when I need it. Right. It's not like some people get really rigid with these rituals and they think they're sort of scared to design a new one because they're like, well, I have to do this for the rest of my life or it's not a ritual. But the thing is, is like rituals actually don't need to be repeated in order for them to be a ritual. The first time you do it, it's still a ritual. Even if you never do it again, it can grow in meaning if you continue to repeat it. But that's only one place that a ritual can be meaningful is through repetition. Repetition can also like erase the meaning of a ritual because it just becomes rote and repetitive. And it's only about just sort of like doing it, but it's lost your personal intention around it. So this ritual, it's like it's there for me when I need it. And when I'm like stressed and in my head, it can be just that little bit of friction, that interruption to be like to come back to myself, come back to my body and come back to like, wait, what am I doing again? You know, like when you get on Instagram because you had to like, send a message to somebody. And then 15 minutes later, you haven't sent the message, you've completely forgotten why you're there. Yeah, I see Sally laughing. So it's that little moment of interruption of like, OK, what am I here to do again? And to come back and to focus. This is a small one. It's kind of silly, but maybe hopefully it'll also encourage people to find the play and the humor and the silliness and ritual because we can relate to them as often these really like serious things. But I make my coffee in the morning, which is very much a habit. Right. It's unconscious. It's automatic. I make it every morning. I don't have to think much about it. It's not intentional. It's not symbolic or whatever, but I have a timer. It goes for 90 seconds and I trained my Google home little like smart speaker that I say, hey, Google, it's coffee time. Sometimes it just will play that. OK. So I say, hey, Google, it's coffee time and it goes OK, like 90 seconds starting now. Hooray, hooray for coffee. And it just brings a little bit of joy into my life and like a little bit of smile and often what I'll do is I'll take that 90 seconds as it's brewing rather than just racing into something else. It's 90 seconds. I'll just go and stare out the window and like take in the morning just for 90 seconds. Those are two that I would say are pretty core to my work day. But as a ritual designer, I'm constantly inventing, reinventing changing and improving new rituals all the
[00:21:00] spk_1: time. I just wanted to make note of one thing you mentioned there, Ezra that for a person like me who is a little bit of an overachiever felt really important to pause on. And that was sort of the mention that rituals are. But if we treat them as something that becomes like this rigid must do, they kind of lose their intentionality. And that's something that I find personally, I need to remind myself very regularly that this is for me, it's not something that should be working against me or causing me more stress. It's there as a moment to pause to connect with my own personal intentionality and just a gentle reminder to slow down and reconnect. And it just felt like a moment that I really needed to flag that because I think so many of us create rituals where we feel the need to really adhere to them strictly. I'm gonna throw to you to perhaps dive into that next question then. So
[00:21:52] spk_0: one thing, I also actually, if it's OK, I just wanted to sort of flag as well. That sort of echoing a little bit what Lex just mentioned around rigidity. And I think that's something that I've struggled with historically building a yoga and meditation and sort of ritual for myself in the mornings that I really started from this place of, if I don't do one hour of yoga and like a half hour of meditation, there's kind of no point like it was very sort of rigid around the length that it had to be for myself to the point where if I suddenly I only had 50 minutes to do yoga, I would not do it because it wasn't the full hour. And so I think that just to echo, as Lex mentioned, like your flexibility around that I think is so important as well that we can say it's not about the number of seconds that I'm doing yoga. It's about that time for myself on the mat. And what that actually means. And that can be just as meaningful. If I'm present for that time, then it's just as meaningful as the time is kind of irrelevant. It's really that grounding and connection.
[00:22:46] spk_2: Yeah. What is uh the poet, data fault say says, forgive yourself for not meeting your unreasonable expectations. If your rituals become an a one more way to inflict yourself and to shame yourself and blame yourself, then it's probably not a very good ritual. And yeah, I think I can just leave it at that. There's a sort of the dark side or the shadow side of rituals that they become, they can feed a sort of obsessiveness and a compulsiveness and a sort of superstition that can actually lock you in place. It becomes actually ha habit, right where it's automatic where there isn't actually intentionality around it before anymore. And it becomes this rigid structure that is trapping you. It's a kind of prison behavior rather than a site liberation and a site of connection with yourself with the other people around you or the earth as a whole. And so it's something to keep an eye on and again, to just point people back to the science, which is that rituals do not need to be repeated. And while they are often described in these sort of like rigid step, one, step two, do it exactly this way. There's no real science to indicate that a ritual requires that. And in some ways, some of the best examples that I have of rituals are the ones that continue to evolve over time and grow with you. And any ritual that you've inherited today has had that journey. I could give some examples if you wanted. But I would say just free yourself up a little bit more and begin to play with the ritual, such
[00:24:22] spk_0: an important message. And thank you for that sort of confirmation and a reminder, I think for all of us to bring some flexibility and open mindedness and that sense of liberation rather than imprisonment that that ritual can bring. Now, you mentioned earlier, a couple of beautiful examples of, you know, where you've seen uh rituals in the workplace, really sort of take hold. And you also mentioned that we shouldn't want to necessarily just copy paste what we're seeing, hearing you doing. But actually there is a process that you bring to those kind of conversations and that work. Now, I know you can't sort of encapsulate all of what you do in a 32nd nutshell. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about that process that you perhaps guide leaders or teams through in creating their own rituals. What can you tell us about that, that process, what it might look like?
[00:25:09] spk_2: Sure, the process is going to look unique depending on your team, your structure of your company. Are you a five person startup or are you a 2000 person legacy institution? The process of creating rituals in either of those spaces is gonna look really different overall though I would encourage you no matter what the actual process is and how you work round up and include people and get that creative energy going. I really encourage people to ask themselves three questions and it's connected to that definition of ritual. So the first question is, why are you doing this? Which is the intention? What's the purpose? Why are you doing this? What are you hoping to achieve? What's your current state? And how do you hope to be on the other side of this ritual? So that's your intention and then ask yourself, why are you doing this? Why are we doing this? And that's the symbolism? That's what does this mean to you? Not just functional? I did the purpose, but what would it mean to you if, if that intention came true? What other values is this pointing to or signaling? And that's the symbolic element? Why are we doing this? What does it mean to you? And then finally, why are we doing this? And that's the elevated the specialness. So and that's where it gets fun and that's where your creativity as a ritual designer, creator, experience designer. However, you want to describe it, that's where it comes in because of all the things that you could do to achieve that purpose. Why that of all the ways that you could mark the two PM slump. Why coffee together as a group of all the ways that we could have marked the beginning of this podcast by three breaths. Why not 10 breaths? Why not 30 breaths? Why not humming together? Right? There's a million different things that we could do. And that's where it gets interesting and fun. And where you get to actually examine is this ritual serving the intention or how effective is it at serving that intention? I think
[00:27:07] spk_1: that's a really important way as well. Ezra to sort of ensure that different people in the group can feel represented in the ritual that's designed as well. And it sort of leads a little bit into my next question, which is, you know, do you have any other thoughts around how we can ensure that the rituals we create as a group are really inclusive and connected of all the members within the group?
[00:27:34] spk_2: Sure. Ultimately, that is very much a facilitation question. And that's much bigger than we've got time for this podcast. But I would encourage anyone creating rituals for a group to create with the group, not for them. And to include people in that process. I always say that rituals should be invitations, not obligations. I think that coffee ritual is actually a great example of like if it was mandated two PM, come to the kitchen and get coffee and hang out because you have to, because we're human here that you would just feel resistance to that rather than the invitation of come if you feel called. So I think that's a great way of including people in that process from the beginning all the way through the actual facilitation and sharing of the ritual.
[00:28:23] spk_1: And I think that's another really important discernment, right? Between what we have to do versus what we intentionally choose and to do because it enhances our day or enhances our experience of work or one another. I think that's a really beautiful difference to highlight between things like routines and habits versus rituals and why we would purposely co create something like a ritual as a group versus putting another routine in place for the group or another two PM meeting, right?
[00:28:52] spk_2: And I don't wanna knock habits and routines and traditions that are necessary, right? Everything can't be a t you'll get three things done in the whole day, right? If it's friction and intentional and, but we need the automatic, I don't want to think twice about and have to consider the symbolic meaning of brushing my teeth. I just want to do it. So habits and routines are really important, especially in workplaces where we need to streamline certain activities. But the downside is if everything is a habit and if everything is routine, it creates a kind of sameness and flatness to our life. And I see almost that like a chart that, that line just being really flat and really like little small dips and bumps. But that's not the full experience of life. And ritual helps us have that full experience of life and point towards that little bump can actually be a mountain. And that little divot where you're just like, I'm sad, but never mind. I'm not, you can actually really feel the depth of that emotion so that it doesn't just live in your system and continue to like haunt you and interrupt you and get in the way for the rest of your time together. And so rituals help us taste and experience that richness and that complexity and that nuance and have the full impact of the things already doing so much of this stuff. The question is like, do we want it to actually have deeper and bigger impact?
[00:30:21] spk_0: Amazing Ezra. Thank you so much for sort of sketching out. I think that's such an important point of sort of differentiation there between the, you know, the the need that we have for things to, to a certain level, to be automated. But also that this, I think almost the mindfulness and presence that a ritual can potentially bring to the moment that drops us sort of out of that automated sort of monkey mind and almost drops us into the actual present lived experience this moment as a human being in connection with others, potentially, if it is a group ritual, that's potentially incredibly profound impact, I imagine for people, especially in the workplace. Now, I imagine we have a lot of leaders who are listening right now who are really inspired. And I was wondering if you could give them a starting point, perhaps if they're thinking, you know, I'd love to delve deeper into this. I'd love to start to think about the rituals that I might be able to build together with my team. What would be a good starting point for those leaders right
[00:31:16] spk_2: now? Yeah. The best place to start, I encourage people is take a look at any sort of changes or transitions in your day or beginnings and endings. Those are good, ripe places for ritual. There's plenty of other places. But those spaces in particular, especially if you're new to ritual are a great place to start. Because any change and any transition, even the ones that we want, even the good changes that we desire come with some sort of loss of the past, which is grief and some sort of unknown in the future, which is anxiety, but that's not the full picture, right? Because on the other side of loss is liberation. And on the other side of anxiety is hope so. Those are good spaces to focus a little bit of ritual or a little bit of attention to slow people down. Even if it's the micro change of closing your laptop at the end of the day. Right. There's some sort of loss from your work and your purpose and something unknown about what's lying ahead of you. And so focus on that. The beginnings and endings of meetings are great places as well because that's where our attention is most primed and where you have the most opportunity to set the tone of that space and to imbue the values that you want to or that you profess to hold. And then once you land on the spot, ask yourself those three questions. Why are you doing this? Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this and why are we doing this?
[00:32:46] spk_1: Ezra, thank you so much for exploring rituals with us today and we are human leaders. It's been an absolute pleasure to share this space with you today.
[00:32:56] spk_2: Thank you so much. The pleasure is certainly mine and as well. And I'm so grateful for these questions and I hope that whoever is listening to this, I hope that at least one little thing has landed in your brain that you can carry forward a little piece of inspiration to bring a little bit more meaning, purpose, belonging, connection, or just even intention and attention into your work life.
[00:33:21] spk_1: I'm sure it has. Thank you so much, Ezra.
[00:33:29] spk_0: Thanks for being with us for another episode of the We are Human Leaders podcast. You can learn more about Ezra's work including his course, the ritual lab at W W W dot Ritual dot life or check the show notes and if you haven't already join the human leadership movement at W W W dot We are human leaders dot com. See you next time.